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28 Responses to “Congress and the IRS Tell 500,000 Foreign Financial Institutions to “Get Lost””

1. Judy Says:
   November 12th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

   I think this is a great idea. I’ve thought it for a long time – just go around them. I thought it also with clearing in NY – why can’t alternative clearing be set up too. The clout of US Treasury is decreasing, and if that continues, which it should given the current course of QE, then what you suggest could become reality, and maybe sooner than later. I’m surprised at how fast some are waking up.

2. Joel Says:
   November 13th, 2010 at 4:35 am

   Mark, you suggest an idea that points the way to added means of enjoying greater privacy: when a privacy invading entity boycotts institutions like banks that don’t play by its self serving rules, just turn the same treatment upon such an entity or collection of entities… do no business with such belligerent bullies. This is I believe the way to tame the paper tiger as millions take this approach and disappear from public view.

3. TM Says:
   November 13th, 2010 at 4:49 am

   HOPEFULLY THE PRESENT DAY INEPT US TREASURY WILL HAVE COLLAPSED COMPLETELY BY 2013 AND BEEN REPLACED WITH SOMETHING NEW AND FAR LESS ONEROUS.

   DITTO FOR THE CORRUPT POLITICAL STRUCTURE AND GOVERNMENT.

   THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS ROTTEN TO THE CORE AND NEEDS TO BE TOSSED OUT LIKE YESTERDAY’S SMELLY GARBAGE.

   THE FOUNDERS AND THE AUTHORS OF THE CONSTITUTION NEVER INTENDED FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO TRACK AND MONITOR EVERY FINANCIAL TRANSACTION OR OTHERWISE ENGAGE IN THE POWER AND WEALTH GRABS THAT ARE BECOMING SO COMMONPLACE THAT THEY ARE BEING WRITTEN INTO ALMOST EVERY SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION CLEARING CONGRESS.

   A SYSTEM WITH A ROTTING FOUNDATION THAT ALLOWS THIS ROBBERY AND THIEVERY TO BE ENSHRINED AND LEGITIMIZED BY VIRTUE OF ALLOWING SUCH FASCISM TO BE DECLARED A LAW IS CLEARLY BROKEN BEYOND REPAIR AND CRIES OUT FOR REPLACEMENT.

   TIME TO BRING THE CONSTITUTION INTO THE 21ST CENTURY BY CREATING A NEW CONSTITUTION WITH AN EXPANDED BILL OR RIGHTS AND GUTTING THE POWER OF GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS AT ANY LEVEL TO ENGAGE IN SUCH TREACHERY AGAINST IT’S CITIZENRY.

4. h. pigou Says:
   November 13th, 2010 at 9:07 pm

   
   gracias! what about o’ seas real estate, shares
   owned directly? EU annuity?
   what about yanks living o’seas w/ accounts
   in o’seas fin. institutions?

5. Arial Says:
   November 14th, 2010 at 3:00 am

   Mark, I have one of your books and enjoy your writing.

   One thing to consider that many Americans do not know (but you may). The U.S. uses the military to threaten other countries if they do not do as they are told. For example, I live in South America. When Uruguay was on the “grey list” re banking secrecy, the U. S. news reported that Uruguay had seen the error of their ways and had agreed to drop their bank secrecy. What was reported in the Uruguay news was that Uruguay was threatened with being denied doing business with U.S. banks and threatened with an embargo.

   Embargo is, of course, an act of war. What they really threatened to do was destroy Uruguay. So Uruguay had no choice. If they had not agreed, the U.S. public would have been hyped with the atrocities going on in Uruguay on and on and on until people were ready to do something about little Uruguay. But Americans are completely in the dark. After I read that in Spanish, I went looking for it in English in the U.S. news. There was not a word anywhere of these threats. Only that Uruguay had finally agreed. So Americans do not know (and probaby do not care!)

   So what happened in Uruguay is that most banks refuse to deal with Americans at all. But the country did acquiesce and the state bank will comply so Americans can bank there. I don’t know of any other bank who will accept clients with U.S. citienship. That’s all they need to hear and you are out of the bank.

   It is much more complicated than we think, unless the U.S. were to lose its military power or Americans finally woke up to what they are doing, I don’t see how it can change. But perhaps it can.

   I do think that if many countries did as you suggest, instead of just one, that might make the difference. For example, Sadam Hussein stated that he would no longer take the dollar for oil. Of course that could not be tolerated. Sadam of course is dead, but now other countries are doing the same anyway. This is a blow to the dollar but when several countries do it, it makes it much more difficult. We can only support war on so many fronts!

   But maybe the plan you suggest will work. I do think that, in time, it will since the U.S. is following the same path that brought down other empires.

   Arial

6. Kreditanstalt Says:
   November 15th, 2010 at 6:01 am

   If the state of government finances is as parlous as we think it is, interest rates won’t be going up anytime soon. And they are negligible now. Everyone should be gradually, little by little, withdrawing cash from the banking system and placing it in their homes, safety deposit boxes or even the proverbial shoebox.

   Not just as a precaution against bank runs: money eventually loses some of its paper trail in this way too. Not comfortable with cash? Then buy gold or silver and stash that too.

   As for moving money overseas, I’d prefer carrying it out, on vacations or business trips, at about $9900 a time. Or in the form of a good watch, jewelry or rare coin or stamp. Once it is out of the country, I’m sure opportunities to invest it will present themselves.

   As US citizens, you are stuck. It might pay to get a second citizenship, too, in order to maintain an account overseas.

7. BW Says:
   November 15th, 2010 at 7:51 am

   Sounds good to me. It would take a bit of learning for depositors to figure out how to manage their accounts this way, and it would need offshore banks to accept being blacklisted, but as you said, who knows what the economic situation will be (everywhere) by 2013.

8. Richard Says:
   November 15th, 2010 at 8:00 am

   “For instance, the HIRE Act states that if a FFI refuses to enter into an agreement with the IRS, it must close all accounts owned by U.S. taxpayers”.

   I would guess that a foreign corporation owned by a Trust would circumvent the closing of US owner’s accounts, because it would be in the name of a Trust and not an individual’s name.

9. Dwain Says:
   November 15th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

   If I remember correctly one of the early regulations from Hitler was to forbid the Jews to transfer monies out of Germany and then it was extended to all Germans.

   We are there!

10. Russ Longcore Says:
    November 15th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Great article on LRC today. Does this affect expats living in Panama? I don’t think Panama has entered into any IRS agreements yet. Then, if I were receiving income from US sources, would I have to have the money deposited into a US bank, then to have the money exchanged into Yuan or Euros, then deposited into my Panama account?

    Russ

11. Dennis Johnson Says:
    November 15th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    How will implementation of this law affect Americans that have an account with http://www.goldmoney.com?

    In addition, how will it affect accounts of less than $10K and greater than $10K?

12. Jan Clark Says:
    November 15th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    If everyone would quit dealing in FRNs by keeping only enough in the bank or enough to buy money orders to pay current bills and taxes, we could be out from under the grip of the Federal Reserve. This in turn would remove much of the power that our government has over us because they would no longer have unlimited ‘money’ to spend on wars, TSA,
    and all the other ways they intimidate us and foreigners. To do this you simply have to buy gold and silver which takes the means (USD$) for the above out of the system.

    So after having said all the above, I think your idea is absolutely what needs to be done, here and abroad. Stop dealing in US$ to stop the criminals.

13. David J. Webb Says:
    November 15th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    I think the entire law is illegal. Too generalized and offends a huge wealthy group of people. I think a move will be made to have it declared unconstitutional.
    Whomever owns the judges, owns the law. I think someone who has billions of dollars owns the judges.
    Has anyone thought out the ramifications? A migration of funds out of dollars puts the currency at risk. What about the sponsors of the law? Have they offended the wealthy? I mean really wealthy . . . Are they re-elected to the new term of office? Just a thought.

14. Butte Bill Says:
    November 15th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    Good Morning. I received a phone call from my favorite European banker today, who informed me that
    1 All purchases of American and foreign securities that are directed by me must now be purchased through American securities dealers, adding another layer of costs.
    2 As a consequence of #1, the minimum account for customer directed accounts is increasing from $100k to $1,000k.
    3 If I wish to let my favorite banker make my investment decisions for me, minimum account increases from $50k to $100k.

    I am taking my time about deciding on what method is best to tell Congress and the IRS to ‘Get Lost’, but it won’t be by nesting my money into a trust holding a foreign corporation held by an IBC hidden away someplace else. That might work for TPTB; but not for an honest sovereign individual.

15. Ed G Says:
    November 15th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Mark, thank you for all you do. I do not believe the HIRE Act impacts Swiss annuities as they are an insurance product. Please let us know if you think otherwise.

16. spongessuck Says:
    November 15th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    With the value and opinion of the dollar dropping rapidly, I would hope foreign institutions would just deal outside of the dollar. However, simply stopping to deal with US persons would be much more effective at getting people frustrated with the US Treasury, and maybe get enough pressure on Congress to repeal the new laws.

    I’m not optimistic, though. Maybe the rich will just move out? That’s what I would do, and it’s a lot easier than getting a law repealed.

17. Tim Butler Says:
    November 15th, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    If I was to open an account with a foreign bank, I assume one of the things I would have to research would be the general banking laws of the country the bank belonged to. Presumably, my account would be handled according to the banking laws of that country.

    This is probably a dumb point, but as long as a foreign bank is obeying the laws of their own country, why should they give a flying fig whether or not they are in compliance with American banking law? What happens in another country when American law and the law of another country conflict?

    If American law is to take precedence ’round the world, can we enforce 1st and 2nd Amendment law in other countries?

    Haven’t major Swiss banks already told the U.S. Treasury Dept. to stuff it as far as recent onerous reporting “requirements” are concerned?

18. David Says:
    November 15th, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    BOOM Securities in Hong Kong may already be doing something along the lines you suggest. I have opened an account there (via a foreign LLC that I effectively own), but because I am a U.S. resident I cannot trade on U.S. exchanges. My account is denominated in dollars, though. Maybe the next step (before 2013) will be to require that it be in some other currency.
    You have an interesting idea and I hope you develop it.

19. Brent Says:
    November 15th, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    This is the nearly final step since starting the process of turning this country into a total banana republic with NAFTA. Each move since then has been not to simply rob Americans but to turn them into virtual slaves. That “volunteer” civilian army is liable to be managed by foreign troops who participated in little actions like Ronnie got us into in El Salvador. I used to employee a fellow who fought and killed his countrymen. He said he was fighting communists. He was a sorry worker too. He’d much rather take what he wanted. The foreign soldiers who manage the FEMA camps will have nothing but contempt for the “communist Norte Americanos”.

20. John VI Says:
    November 16th, 2010 at 12:59 am

    Richard above is pretty much correct. There are several reason for investing offshore, but for most people they boil down to legally avoiding taxes, privacy and expanded investment choices. Already the best way to do that is with an offshore international business corporation. Essentially an IBC is a legal entity allowed to incorporate in the local jurisdiction, but not allowed to do business in the same location, and falling under differnt tax rules because of this. Since these are legal entities for tax and investment issues, the local governments, who rely on these businesses to support thier local economies, will simply change the way the IBCs are defined, undercutting the US regulations. Trust companies run the majority of these already in the dedicated offshore financial centers, simply for the added layer of protection. So they wont run afoul of these regulations anyways.

21. caraboska Says:
    November 16th, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    There is another workaround. If you have documentable permanent residence overseas, and are able to fund your offshore account from a non-US account, then there are institutions that will treat you as a non-US person. Not every one will; it just depends on whether their policy is to go by residence or citizenship. So you just have to shop around and find an institution that goes by residence.

    If the firm accepts PayPal, even a foreign PayPal account will do. Then the money can even ultimately come from an account at a US bank or US-issued debit/credit card tied to your PayPal account. The US bank or card won’t show up as such in the documentation received by the institution where you are setting up your offshore account. All the offshore institution will see is the info for your foreign PayPal account.

22. Watch Says:
    November 16th, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    Does this impact investment in Swiss annuities? I had planned on moving my IRA to these, and deferring payouts for 6 years, until retiremnt, at which time I would recive payment in CHF, converted to USD deposited in my choice of banks. USD will be worth dog $hit in 6 years. CHF is stable, and annuties there are backed by Swiss Banking law. I would pay taxes on the income stream only. Where does the IRS have the right to determine my retirment strategy??? Do they want me on Welfare>?

23. Tom Says:
    November 17th, 2010 at 4:47 am

    The US is a rogue nation and should be treated as such. No foreigner or foreign company should have anything to do with the US. If you are unfortunate enough to be an american citizen, and if you have enough capital to invest outside of the US, go to the Dominican Republic, get residence there, it’s easy, you don’t actually have to live there, and start a Dominican company, use that company to start another Dominican company, your name will not be on that one, and run all of your foreign investments through it. Including possibly starting yet another company in Nevis or Cyprus using the second Dominican company as the technical owner.
    And get a foreign passport as soon as possible.

24. Rose Says:
    November 21st, 2010 at 4:42 am

    Might want to check into buying property either for investment, rental or living through out the year, and precious metals.
    It is my understanding that the US does not look at either one as money (paper).
    But again I am not sure if any of this has changed since all of this other B.S.
    It is worth looking into.
    There is a country or two that enjoy the US citizens opening accounts in their banks, and as far as they are concerned invading the customer’s privacy is a 18 month jail sentence.
    Just keep an eye on the other countries Panama Austria, Lichtenstein etc. They publish their news in english online. See how they plan to handle the latest news from the US.

25. PTRILLA Says:
    November 21st, 2010 at 9:02 am

    I HONESTLY THINK THE BALL CAN GO BOTH WAYS FORIEGN COMPANIES CAN LEAVE AMERICA AND AMERICAN COMPANIES CAN LEAVE FOREIGN ONES. BUT I THINK AMERICANS CAN INVEST IN AMERICA AND AMERICAN AND FOREIGNERS CAN DO THE SAME. THE PROBLEM AND SOLUTION IS VERY SIMPLE THE U.S. GOVERNMENT SHOULD STOP TURNING THE POOR MIDDLES AND RICH INTO SLAVES FOR THE WEALTHY THEIR IS A DIFFERENCE. IF AMERICANS LEARNED TO HELP AND EMPLOY EACH OTHER ON ALL LEVELS OF SOCIETY WOULD WE EVEN NEED FORIEGN BUSINESS PARTNERS SAME AS FOREIGN COMPANIES. THE THING IS AMERICANS DONT NEED TO DEPEND ON GOING OVER SEAS UNLESS YOU CANT BE A USA CITIZEN BECAUSE OF BEING POOR HOMELESS MIDDLE CLASS OR NOT ABLE TO WORK HAVE A JOB INVEST OR HAVE A BUSINESS IN AMERICA OR BECAUSE OF TAXES AND THE MANY INHERIT PROBLEMS OF SOCIETY IN AMERICA WHICH CAUSE SOME AMERICANS TO LEAVE. HONESTLY IF AMERICAN WORKED TOGETHER AND THE FEDERAL RESERVE AND GOVERNMENT PROVIDED GOOD PAYING JOBS ABOVE MINIMUM WAGE AND PRINTED ENOUGH MONEY AND CREATED ENOUGH JOBS WHICH DONT NEED TO BE DEPENDANT ON FOREIGN SOIL OR PRODUCTS WHICH PLENTY ANYTHING FOREIGN IS RIGHT WITHIN AMERICAN BORDERS JUST JOBS NEED TO BE CREATED FOR IT. AMERICANS COULD BECOME A GOOD NATION BUT OUR DUMB ASS GOVERNMENT IS SO BENT ON MAKING SLAVES OUT OF ITS OWN PEOPLE THEY FORCE US TO LEAVE EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE WEALTHY AND COULD CARE LESS SO ITS KIND OF A YING AND YANG THING. BILLIONAIRES ARE SAFE IN THEIR CASTLES BUT WHAT ABOUT US REGULAR FOLKS WHO ARE NEED OF THIS AMERICAN SYSTEM BUT ONLY MERE CATTLE SLAVES TO IT LIVING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK BARELY GETTING BY ONCE THEY CUT OFF OUR SERVICES WE SO DIRELY NEED. THEN AMERICANS SHOULD LEARN TO WORK AND EMPLY ONE ANOTHER AT FIRST MONEY MIGHT NOT BE AVIAILBLE BUT IF WE LEARNED TO WORK TOGETHER AND HELP CLOTHE FEED PROVIDE SHELTER AND USE OUR SERVICES FOR ONE ANOTHER. THEN WE WOULDNT EVEN NEED THE GOVERNMENT OR SYSTEM OR ANY FOREIGN ENTITY WHICH PLANS TO DESTROY OR LAUNCH NUKES OR SEND POISON FOOD,PRODUCTS OR WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION TO OUR SOIL. OBTAINING DUAL CITIZENSHIP AND OFFSHORE ACCOUNTS JUST TO AVOID TAXES IS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WEALTHY AND CAN AFFORD TO EVADE THE LAW. BUT US REGULAR FOLKS WHO CANT CAN DUAL CITIZENSHIP OR EVADE TAXES OR PUT EXPENSIVE HOUSES,LAND,DIAMONDS,GOLD,STOCKS,DEEDS,TITLES,IMPORTANT PAPERS INTO OFF SHORE ACCOUNTS AND COMPANIES WHAT ARE WE TO DO. IF WE CANT BE APART OF THE WEALTHY SYSTEM. WHERE ARE WE TO GO IF GOVERNMENT TURNS AWAY FOREIGN PARTNERS AND BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY ARE A THREAT TO US. SHOULD WE LEAVE INTO THEIR HANDS NOT KNOWING THEIR INTENTIONS. WHAT DO THE WEALTHY KNOW FOR THEM TO TURN AWAY FORIEGN BUSINESS PARTNERS WHOM MIGHT NOT BE A THREAT TO AMERICA. ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY AND HOW IS A SYSTEM BASED ON BILLS,MORTGAGES,LIGHTS,UTILITIES,CITIES,BUILDINGS, VEHICLES POWERRED BY GAS,OIL,WATER. ALL POWERED BY CURRENCY GOING TO SURVIVE IF WE DONT HAVE THE MONEY TO KEEP IT THRIVING. IF THE WEALTHY CAUSE MIDDLE CLASS,UPPER CLASS,POOR TO BECOME JOBLESS,UNEMPLOYED THEN WHAT GOOD IS A SYSTEM GOING TO BE. HOW WILL IT THRIVE WITHOUT ALL THOSE ASSETS OF FOREIGN INFLUENCE WHICH MAKE UP SO MUCH OF THE FABRIC OF OUR SOCIETY. WE CANT SIMPLY PRESERVE OUR NATION IF OUR NATION DOES NOT BELIEVE IN ITSELF. AMERICANS ARE AT EACH OTHER THROATS FOR PENNIES SO ARE FOREIGNERS KEEP US DOWN IN THE BOTTOM OF THE BUCKET OF SOCIETY WHILE THE ELITE AND WEALTHY RUN OFF WITH OUR HARD EARNED MONEY. IF AMERICANS DONT LEARN TO WORK TOGETHER BUILD CITIES COMMUNITIES STATES BASED ON PEACE HARMONY LOVE SHARING CARING VOLUNTEERING. THIS COUNTRY IS GOING TO FALL APART BUT IT HAS FALLEN APART SINCE 1492 AND COUNTING SO WHEN WILL AMERICANS WELL THOSE WHO ARE NOT WEALTHY WAKE UP AND REALIZE IF THEIR IS NO UNITY IN COMMUNITY OR AMERICAN THEN AMERICANS CANT SURVIVE OR EVEN THINK OF HOLDING A TITLE CALLED AMERICAN OR PRESERVING OUR CONSTITUTION. WHICH IS TAKING OUR LIBERTIES AND RIGHTS AWAY AS WE READ THIS ARTICLE. I MEAN WHAT THE HELL DO THEY THINK THEY ARE DOING DISMANTLING THEIR INVESTMENTS WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE INVESTMENTS DO THEY REALLY WANT US TO PULL OUT AND GIVE UP AND FIND A WAY TO NOT HAVE TO USE OUR SOCIAL SECURITY PASS PORT DRIVERS LICENSE AND INSURANCE AND HOMES TO KEEP THE AMERICAN EMPIRE GOING. I AM APPALLLED I DONT HAVE THE ANSWER OR THE SOLUTION BUT I KNOW IF THE POWERS THAT BE KEEP RUNNING THIS COUNTRY OFF OF OLD LAWS, OLD RULES, OLD DOCUMENTS, THE FOUNDING FATHERS, THE CONSTITUTION, A NUMBERS SYSTEM, AND LOCAL ECONOMIES WHERE MANY PARTS OF THE COUNTRY DONT RECIEVE ANY OR NONE OF THE SUPPORT OR PROGRAMS WHICH ARE DESIGNED AS CITY CONTRACTS WHICH DONT IMPROVE LIFE FOR AMERICANS YOU CAN KISS THE BALL OF FIRE HEADING TOWARDS HELL GOOD BYE.

26. Bill Says:
    November 21st, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    Why do people want to take their assets off shore? It is because of the poor tax policies of the United States. If we had good tax policies people in other countries would want to bring their assets here.

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